How To Develop A Creative Mindset – #305

How To Develop A Creative Mindset

Developing A Creative Mindset

How To Develop A Creative Mindset

My guest today believes that it is time to rethink the way we make innovation happen. He argues that innovation doesn’t come from an algorithm; it comes from the personal creativity of individuals. And creativity is not a gift for the chosen few—it is a process that can be learned. Jeff DeGraff is the Professor of Management and Organizations at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan. He teaches MBA, EMBA, BBA, and Executive Education courses on leading creativity, innovation, and change. Jeff’s mission is “the democratization of innovation.” and he brings innovation to a global audience through his books, his public television program (Innovation You), columns (Inc.), and radio program (The Next Idea).

In his new book The Creative Mindset, Jeff and his co-author Stanley DeGraff introduce six essential creative-thinking skills: Clarify, Replicate, Elaborate, Associate, Translate, and Evaluate, or CREATE. Sequenced as steps, these skills simplify and summarize the most important research on creative thinking and draw on over thirty years of real-world application in some of the most innovative organizations in the world.

In our discussion, we talk about cognitive range, creative renaissance, and how to develop a creative mindset. Enjoy the show.



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How To Develop A Creative Mindset

How To Develop A Creative Mindset

Democratization Of Creativity

Jeff DeGraff  1:35  

Well, first of all, I’m one of the old guys that kind of was early in this field. So I’m the last graduate student of Rudolf are and if you know anything about the field of creativity start at the University of Berlin. I’m the end of the old guys. And so, at the end of I’ve been in over half the fortune 500, at this point in my life, and I thought, it’s time to summarize the research and what I’ve learned being in all these big companies into something that was simple, that could be used by anyone. My mission is the democratization of creativity and innovation. So that’s why I wrote the book. I know it’s a busy area, it’s a very busy area. Now. That wasn’t when I got here. And this is sort of my summary of where the field is. -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  2:26  

Now in the book, you can take us through these different Yeahs, really nice. acronym for creates, which I hadn’t seen. But this is your acronym as well, I believe. So tell us about it. Because I think it’s actually a really nice way that you framed the book. You take people through the book and, and your ideas. -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

Cognitive Inquiry Strategies

Jeff DeGraff  2:45  

Yeah. So originally, I originally talked to the publisher, about looking at this, like a pyramid James. So the notion was, what I wanted to talk about, was, the field I come from is something called cognitive inquiry strategies or early artificial intelligence, right. And what I wanted to talk about were levels of thinking and how you sort of built up bluffs of thinking. And there were different thinking skills, mindset skills. The publisher said, look at no one’s gonna want to read that book, what they got to read is a nice, sharp, sharp book that has something that they can understand the skills that they don’t have to work all the way through the pyramid. So the object was, these are separate skills. You don’t have to master all of them. But the mnemonic device is C stands for clarify. Because the biggest problem James, as you well know, is that people get the problem wrong. Right. So how do you do that, too, is to replicate, which is a fancy way of saying mimic, how do you actually mimic and there’s a lot of research on, you know how that happens? Everything from uranga tongs to Khaldoon crows mimic, right, but people do too. He stands for elaborate, which is how do you actually take an idea and build iterations of it’s brainstorming on steroids, if you will. A stands for associate, which is my favorite, which is illogical thinking right? Or metaphorical thinking, how do you do that? And I think people learn a lot about how their brain works. T stands for translate, as we well know, if you don’t tell a good story, you can’t actually build the narrative arc, no one will get it. And CT E stands for evaluating, how do you pick the idea? That’s the winning idea. And these are all different skills. So I tried to make it a nice easy box so people could remember this. So you could use it, whether you were, you know, a senior in high school or you were starting a company or you were trying to get your board to think a little more creatively. -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  4:34  

So that first one, the cloud or the clarify. One. I’m thinking there was I think it’s Peter Drucker. That said, the biggest problem in management decisions is not necessarily going wrong, the wrong solution is that they were looking at the wrong problem and asking the wrong question. So they were kind of going back and thinking well, is that really the problem that we’re trying to solve? So what tools do you talk about in terms of how you identify What the real challenge or the real problem is before you get into how to solve it?

Jeff DeGraff  5:03  

Yeah, the first big thing about all this is really there’s a, there’s a, to and fro. And this, first of all, is when you actually try and find what the problem is, you have to know who knows what the problem is, who to talk to, who really has an answer, think about the modern internet world, where, you know, the kid who sat next to you in chemistry class in 10th, grade and flunked, you know, has all kinds of things to say on social media about vaccines, right? First of all, don’t listen to him. Mike, who actually knows. The second thing is, what are you actually qualified to solve? Right? So you know, don’t boil the ocean, and then try and extract gold and don’t just turn the dial, you know, one half of a click. So those kinds of iterative questions. So the first thing you have to do is to have a creative mindset. I talked about that at the beginning of the book, but then you have to do a lot of sense-making. And sense-making is something that you don’t do in a vacuum, it’s the biggest problem with self-help literature, you know, getting knowing who knows, trying to figure out where there are incongruities, or there’s anomalies or something that typically, people would overlook blind spots, as we sometimes call them. And then finally, decision making, what problem Am I going to solve? Because a lot of times, you know, people will go along, and they really haven’t developed any ownership for it. So there’s a lot of research and actually says, when we talk to academics, what they think the most important skill is, is, is creative problem-solving. But when we talk to executives, it’s getting the problem right. -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  6:34  

Now, you can always touch on their language a little bit as it reverts. So we often in organizations will often use innovation. They comfortably I know, you read a book, you know, the innovation code, which looks at innovation you studied, you studied innovation as well, in this book, you’re talking really about creativity. So I think it might be useful for the, for the listeners, like how do you how are those things different? Or are they the same thing? Yeah, -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

Jeff DeGraff  7:02  

no, I’m gonna add a third. That’s it for me to rock Excuse me, I’m gonna add a third ball, which has changed. These are all sisters if you will. So I got to write the guidelines for the federal government 1992 in the United States for innovation. But there’s three, there are three ways I’d like there are three terms I’d like people to understand. So creativity is basically a mindset issue. It’s the process of thinking about useful novelty, something that’s, that’s useful, but it’s unique. Innovation is the production of useful novelty, it’s the creation, the actual outcome. And change is the process that happens in between there’s a transformational process. It’s a bridge. The challenge, as you know, James these days, and I started writing about this really, in the 90s was, as you get into design thinking and the experience economy, creativity, and innovation begin to collapse, right? Think about the fashion industry, you know, is that black dress really substantially or demonstrably different than somebody else’s black dress? And the answer is no, but the expression of it, and maybe the specific color, or a specific tone of black or shade of black that comes in might be more valuable to someone else. So the aesthetic piece, more and more is, is having its day in actually superimposing creativity on innovation. -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  8:28  

But I think like those words, I’m also noticing, maybe it’s a generational thing as well, where we all people in many organizations, not that they were comfortable talking about creativity, but things that they would, they might were really more covering creativity, they would use the word innovation because he felt much more comfortable using that word, a lot of younger generation now. They kind of use the word creativity, what actually they’re really mini stuff is all about innovation, which is about the process and producing stuff. So are you seeing that shift, and -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

Cognitive Mobility

Jeff DeGraff  9:00  

I am an engineer and I think it’s funny when I started teaching this 35 years ago, you know, Michael Ray taught at Stanford, and no one else would dare teach it because it was just considered sort of weak. And so you know, I’m sorry to put it this way a feminine or whatever you want to call it right? Of course, hopefully, we’re through all that in our worlds right now. Right? We’re, we’re grownups now, but yes, I do see them superimpose the words. And I think there’s a real challenge. I mean, though, there’s also a challenge. There’s a lot of research that says young people are having some challenges and what’s called cognitive mobility or cognitive range because of, you know, what, then there’s a lot of speculation is it, helicopter parents? Did you know there’s an app for that mentality? Is it fear of failure in a world where maybe the ability to fail is a little more difficult, but one of the things I think we’re very concerned about, or at least I am, is producing a generation of people who have a lot of cognitive mobility And and part of the growing up in the previous generation where I worked on a supercomputer with a slide rule. I mean, this is hard for people to get. But the obstacles, the workarounds are what helps you develop that confidence in that momentum in that mobility? -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  10:18  

I wonder how much of that is a reflection on the tools that have been created for me I think about like apple products. And the way that they’re sold is their tools of creation that, you know, you can create anything on this iPad or that device or that thing. But really, they’re used more as a tool of consumption rather than creativity. So do you think you have a background you told me in terms of artificial intelligence, you think that no tools actually shape creativity? -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

Mongolian barbecue effect

Jeff DeGraff  10:44  

I think that in some ways, they substitute it, that’s what the cog mobility issues about, I call this the Mongolian barbecue effect. You know you go to Mongolia, Mongolian barbecue, I haven’t. This long, you know Hiles of all kinds of stuff that people just put the most, you know, the most abysmal combinations together. And they love it because they made it right, but you would need the city for the person behind him or the person in front of you wouldn’t need it. And it’s really not very creative. Because it’s basically a structurally restrictive system. It’s a functioning restrictive system. So we’re not seeing, you know, have we seen Mozart with an iPhone yet? And the answer is, I don’t think we have. I think what we’re seeing is a lot of close thinking, a lot of replicated thinking, the things that are sort of passing for creativity, or, you know, 40 weeks, can we do it in 45 seconds? And you know, can we, you know, the monetization of the image, so on and so forth. I’m not sure that that’s really taking us to the next place. So ask yourself a simple question, what happens after the phone, you know, and if it’s wearables, or if one of my former students, you know, worked on Google Glass, right, creating Google Glass. I mean, really, that’s what you got. That’s all. That’s all the game we got right now. I think there’s a lot more in-store experience, Rob more in-store around what the expression actually is, then the technology happens, it will continue to happen and come from the field. You know, technology is not creativity, technology is the palette of the paintbrush, you know, you know, the pen and paper, it’s not the creative process. -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  12:19  

Now you’re based in Michigan, and I was in Michigan a little while ago in Detroit, a city I’d never been to before. And I was actually really impressed because you hear all the stories that outsider about Detroit, and, and actually, I was really impressed, obviously, a lot of growth is going to release on starting to happen in the city as well. You work also with a lot of companies who are maybe more established, they’ve been around for a long time, when they come to you and ask like, how can we how we need to get up, get innovative, again, we’ll be resting on our laurels, or when those products that we created 30 40 years ago, producing like 80% of our revenues, we need to kind of catch up when you talk about creativity to a company like that, that already had a certain level of success, which now about reinventing themselves to this time? What advice Are you giving,

2080 Rule

Jeff DeGraff  13:08  

I’d say three things right off the bat, think about a bell curve, creativity and innovation, that product of creativity does not move from the center out, it’s the opposite, it moves from the outside in. So let me unpack this idea for you. It’s not the 8020 rule, it’s the 2080 rule. It’s easier to change 20% of a company 80% than it is to change 80% of a company. 20% Let me repeat that it’s easier to change 20% of a company 80% than it is to change 80% of a company 20% what you need to do start at the edges of the bell curve. Think about your own life for a minute, James, you know, when do you really change, you know, when you get a divorce or you go bankrupt or you lose your job. And the reason you try some not you personally but the reason somebody would try something is because of the risk of trying something radical. And the reward of staying where you’re at is reversed when you’re in a crisis. That’s why innovation is typically what’s called a down cycle or a convex form of economics. That’s why it happens that way. There’s a whole theory field of innovation economics, right, sometimes called jump based on Joseph Schumpeter’s work, the Schumpeter scale,

James Taylor  14:16  

destruction? Yeah, right. Right. Fighting

Jeff DeGraff  14:18  

creative destruction. That’s right. And then the other side of that is when you’re unrolling, think about Ilan Musk, you know, he’s lost $500 million this quarter, but only $500 million. And he’s on a roll. He’s the second wealthiest man in the world right now. Right? So think about how risk and reward are reversed for him. So first of all, you have to find the part of the company that’s in a crisis or on a roll that doesn’t focus on the middle. Number two, you want to look for the individuals in the organization who are exhibiting self-authorizing behavior. And what that means is they’re not waiting around for James or Jeff to tell them what to do in my own labs, you know, they have these labs around the country, these innovators, you know, it’s frustrating some days, you’re like, why are you in Denver? Like, well, I saw something and you know, or maybe they’re in Edinburgh, I don’t know. And you say, Well, what are you doing there and they’re exhibiting self-authorizing behavior. So the big second thing is innovators innovate. You can’t just, you can’t just, you know, turn somebody into an innovator. The third is I’m a big believer in the famous American philosopher John Dewey’s mantra. See one, do one, teach one, see one, do one, teach one. And I think that’s how we all learned. I learned because when I was a 25-year-old, I decided to come down to Arbor to work in medical school on an artificial intelligence project. Back in the day, I didn’t like it met a guy who had a $20 million pizza company. Five years and billions of years later, I sold Domino’s Pizza to Mitt Romney and Bain Capital. I learned how to build things by building them. Right. And by people who weren’t necessarily Huggy, and, you know, Kumbaya. Were pretty tough. And that’s why I built these labs, you know, you take young people and you say, Okay, now, instead of me lecturing you, we’re going to learn to do this. So stand here, you know, grind, paid, stretch, canvases, whatever the metaphor of a, of a real, you know, the artistic workshop is, and we’re going to learn how to do this, and I think over 30, some years we’ve had a number of people do really well.

James Taylor  16:22  

I’m James Taylor, business, creativity, and innovation keynote speaker, and this is the SuperCreativity Podcast. If you enjoy listening to conversations with creative thinkers, innovators, entrepreneurs, artists, authors, educators, and performers, then you’ve come to the right place. Each week we discuss their ideas, their life, their work, successes, failures, creative process, and much more, you’ll find show notes for today’s episode, as well as free creativity training at If you’re enjoying learning about Jeff DeGraff, then check out my interview with Professor Roger Kneebone, where we discuss why experts matter, and how to develop mastery in your chosen profession. Here’s my conversation with Roger Kneebone at James After the break, we returned to my interview with Jeff Dygraf, where we discussed more ideas on how to develop your creativity. This week’s episode is sponsored by SpeakersU, the online community for international speakers, SpeakersU helps you launch, grow and monetize your speaking business faster than you thought possible. If you want to share your message, a highly paid speaker, then SpeakersU will teach you how just go to to access their free speaker business training in the 

The United States at the moment, and we’ve just coming hopefully, we’re coming to the end of a pandemic or we’re starting to see there’s light at the end of the tunnel there. In 1921. We saw the end of the Spanish flu pandemic. And in America, you had the roaring 20s of the roaring 1920s. We saw this huge outburst of creativity and innovation and artistic, great authors, musicians, and architecture. How are you feeling? Do you feel we might be moving into a new creative 2020s Are we going to be I think, -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

Creative Renaissance

Jeff DeGraff  18:05  

James, that’s a great question. First of all, and I think we’re sitting front row to the greatest innovation, upheaval we’ve seen in 100 years. And I like that you’ve pointed it back to that I want you to contrast two things. And I’m not sure if this is applicable, but I think it is to our friends in the UK, certainly as to our friends in India and Brazil and some other China. When we first learned of this pandemic, we tried to use conventional hierarchy to control its processes, planning, and penalties, right procedures, and all the pieces. And this was an event innovation that is often event-driven and fell outside of the event. And by any objective standard, particularly in this country. It was a categorical failure, complete failure 4% of the world’s population as the end of February of last year, we had 20% of all the February of this year, we had 20% of all the deaths that were reported worldwide, just certainly for a country this rich and with this many, you know doctors, etc. This much infrastructure was a complete disaster. And it’s not just the federal government. This was true of states, universities at the same time. We had 595 creativity clusters emerge in this country 595. organically, not around Big Pharma, not around any groups of people. And you know, be like an Edinburgh getting together for a pickup game of football, right. And what happened was 116 of those made it through phase one trials at the Food and Drug Administration. 54 made it through phase two. And nine made it through phase three people often forget, there’s actually nine in the box. And this was the end of March. So what happened was at the same period of time that we all failed, right? We went from a 10-year cycle to develop a vaccine to 10 months, 10 years to 10 months and this is what people aren’t getting the biggest mistake companies to make is they try and put the new in the old and try and put the new inside the old and it never works. The issue is can you imagine being the Food and Drug Administration today trying to make, you know, going back to a 10-year cycle for drug discovery, it’s never gonna happen. Right? So the, so the world has turned, but when it turns, remember, the Empire always Strikes Back. And that’s what we’re seeing. And we’re seeing it in all these countries, we’re seeing nationalism, we’re seeing closing ranks, we’re seeing, you know, additional bureaucracy, we’re seeing the, you know, the cutting off the funding for certain things, which is expected because what this is, what’s happening is the innovations and the innovators are supplanting the old guard. Now, this is not people are not going to go peacefully, this is the part that people don’t get right about creativity, innovation, nobody rolls over. So this is going to be, I think, we’re going to go through about six, seven years of kind of, you know, whitewater. -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  20:57  

We’re also seeing like those, I guess, the 1920s, or maybe before that, there was the kind of standard oils, and it was oil companies, these were the big kind of monopolistic kind of forces. Now, it’s Google, Facebook, you know, and a lot of my friends are working in startups. You know, there’s a whole kind of Aqua hire just as things the product starts to really get going. There, they’re acquired, and that product has closed down, and then the people get moved into that. So do so what is your sense of like, what these kinds of larger companies mean, to creativity? You know, do we need to kind of break all that stuff up. It is actually useful for creativity.

Jeff DeGraff  21:38  

So we need to break it up. I think the fact you’re absolutely like your metaphor, the Fang companies are the new, you know, the new standard oils of the Gilded Age, right? I think what you need to do is to create a more forgiving and more positive environment for the startup community. So let me give an example of that. You these people on the Fang companies are insanely rich, and everyone around the world wants to just tax them well, in order to instead of taxing them, redirect, you know, abate taxes and redirect them into an investment, you know, be like Israel, you know, everything that you invest in new companies is straight right down. You know, you know, if the object is you’re not, you’re not creating enough fertile field for the smaller companies you’re creating, you know, you’re trying too hard to stop the larger companies, you’re not trying hard enough to encourage the smaller ones, because I think naturally, you know, Larry Page at Google was one of my students here at Michigan, right, I think naturally, naturally, the startups will begin to replace or at least to upend parts of the larger ecosystems, because everyone, for example, everyone’s going to platforms, right? And no one is thinking about what happens after platforms. And if you’re old enough like I am, you remember, in the old days that you had to go to the net for everything for computing, and platforms, where everything, then we went to distributed data processing, and now we’re back to platforms. Right? Well, what’s what comes after that? What’s the next thing and that was what I was talking about earlier. You know, if you’re stuck in the ecosystem, and we’re starting to see some lawsuits and some pushback around the ecosystem, well, what happens when you don’t need to go to Apple to find that app that you’ve got, what happens when you don’t need to be in the Google universe to do this, or on Facebook, and this is, in what we’re going to see is out of the big Fang companies, you’re already starting to see, you know, Apple threw the first punch at Facebook about, you know, three months ago, the privatization thing, that whole business model goes away, Google’s gonna be a little more powerful, right, and we’re gonna, this is about creativity, not about these big giants. But the notion is, that will create room for individuals who’ve got creative ideas, -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  23:40  

I can look at it from the perspective of almost like 1978 in history, where you had all these big, like rock bands, like the yeses, and the, you know, the, or those, they call them those kinds of those bands, or maybe the Eagles are less age. And things were like, there was this machine, it was big, but then and these kinds of big live shows. And then punk music came along, DIY, DIY kind of aesthetics of doing things. And it totally changed because it came from a different ways and reading

Jeff DeGraff  24:14  

metaphor. And not only that, it’s a great metaphor, James, I think that is what’s happened. And I love the metaphor, which is, you know, which is the associated part of my book. But what I also love is how the money was made, it used to be that you made the record and now of course, the records are not how you make the downloads, not how you make money. Think about Wilco and fish and all these scripts. They make the money in the live show. So the notion is the model split, you know, the classroom is flipped during COVID. That, to me, looks creative. That’s what we’re talking about missing. It’s not technology. It’s that you’re doing the homework with the teacher and the actual lesson is what stream that’s the creative moment. Right? And that doesn’t require you to have a Fang company or a million dollars. I coined the term creative Ising for that. The reason, because what I noticed, in which you really noticed during the COVID of isolation was it’s not just these great companies that are really creative. It’s poor people, I grew up in what’s called a HUD house. Right? I grew up in a working-class neighborhood. And the most creative people I’ve ever known in my life are from those neighborhoods because they don’t have the money to do things. Right. So people are, you know, chop shopping there, you know, their john deere lawn mower, right? and all kinds of stuff and, you know, what they used to call in the old days, pimping your ride, and all this kind of stuff. I don’t know if that’s appropriate terminology. But the point is, when you don’t have money, you try stuff. And I, you know, what’s it Oh, Bob Dylan line, when you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, right? -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  25:43  

Oh, Necessity is the mother of invention, as well. And so, so you in the book, you know, you talk about this idea, creative mindset, that, but that mindset is necessary, but not sufficient. I think that’s quite an important point, just to kind of put across because it could be that if someone just picked up the book is like, okay, I do need to develop this creative mindset. And all this stuff’s gonna come to me. So maybe just give us a little bit more on that. Yeah. So -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

Creative Mindset

Jeff DeGraff  26:10  

For example, one of the things that I think are people who are creative have a number of attributes, but one of them is a mindset. And one of them is courage. One of them is persistence. The whole idea of effortless superiority is nonsense. You know, maybe in the fields of Eton or something, but the rest of us, we have to work for it. But I, what I start out by the book, saying there are certain things that are attributes that we noticed that people who are high functioning creatives, and this is sort of a condensation of the research and sort of tongue in cheek. So for example, one of the things I talk about is people who actually discover creativity, and they do this by looking for anomalies or incongruities, right, and I just recently had an experience with a student group, and a wonderful group. And they had a project and I kept asking them questions about things that didn’t seem to go together to me. And I kept asking, what could you say they’re getting annoyed with me? Right? They’re graduate students, like, you know, why are you asking? We’re just moving ahead and like, well, you might want to pay attention to these things that don’t make sense. And about halfway through the project, it blew up. And it had to do with these two things that didn’t make sense. And then they had the presence of mine saying, you know, I think that’s why he asked us those questions. These things aren’t making sense. Well, that’s the opportunity space, right? That’s where all the gold is. So the first piece is sort of getting this mindset of, of, you know, what do I really think about getting other people out of your head? What am I really seeing? And of course, remember, creativity requires that we’re sensemaking. That’s the first piece and then we’re making, he can’t really do anything to make sense of something in decision making. But our dominant logic, our dominant worldview is so strong, James, that we have a tendency to stick with it and have enormous blind spots. It’s less about what we created and more about what we saw. So when you remember Steve Jobs’ famous Stanford graduation speech, he says, you know, creative people really feel guilty, because they don’t think they created anything. They saw something somewhere. And they applied what’s called searching reply, and they applied to somewhere else. I’m like, Yeah, they discovered it. So that’s the first piece and then the pieces of, you know, the various skills kick in. But what’s underlying This is you have to be motivated. You know, version one is never going to be any good. Hemingway has some real sort of tongue-in-cheek, nasty Hemingway sayings about the first draft. Well, we won’t repeat them here. But the point is, you know, the first draft gets you to the second draft, gets you to the third draft. And I think this is my 10th book, you know, anybody’s written a book or building companies or do the kind of work that I have to do on a regular basis. You don’t expect the first one to work. The biggest challenge for people when they start doing this is they expect effortless superiority. The first time doesn’t work, but if it did, you got lucky. And luck doesn’t last. -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  28:52  

Yeah, it remains. It’s um, we had Jeff. So Seth Godin on the show. And recently, he was talking about the practice of seeing your creative work more or less like more as a practice rather than just something purely outcome driven all the time. And I think when you start to see the kind of creative work like a practice, like you do, like you mentioned, like music, like a musician and guitar player, learning those riffs, learning those things. So when they hit the stage, it just flows and they’re almost like not thinking they are thinking, but they’re not thinking. And one of the things I -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

Jeff DeGraff  29:24  

I know one of the things I loved about Seth’s book right now is it’s right on its own. That’s why I built the innovative trips. It’s a practice. See one do one teach one you join the Guild, you learn the trade, the whole idea that you know, you’re just going to walk in and do this, you either are heaven insanely gifted, which is you’re the 1% of 1%. Or you’re lucky, or you have to learn the practice. So this book is about the practice of creativity. It’s about the mindset and the kinds of things you do and then the book is filled with how do you apply this? I mean, I wrote this in a very different way. Here’s my story about this. Now, you try You go out and try it, see if this, you know, and just keep working at it to kind of get that muscle of you know, it’s, it’s probably -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  30:07  

the last book I would expect written by someone that comes from the world of academia, because it’s very action orientated. And this is my everyday creativity, things that people can apply to their lives and in their and in their jobs and the work that they do as well. Jeff, thank you so much for coming on today. The book, the creative mindset is out. Now we’re gonna have a link to it here as well. Where should people go if they want to just find out more about you? You’ve got 10 books now? Where should they go if they want to find out more about these books and some of the other work that you’re doing just

Jeff DeGraff  30:35  

two places, go to And you’ll learn all about my labs and all that Jeff de graph dot Jeff, or go to LinkedIn. I’m one of the original influencers on LinkedIn. And I write a column every week for LinkedIn and everyone else these days, so it’s an easy way to learn about it. And James, thanks for having me on. -How To Develop A Creative Mindset

James Taylor  30:53  

Well, Jeff, thank you so much for joining us today on the SuperCreativity Podcast. Thank you. Thanks to your listeners, you can subscribe to the SuperCreativity Podcast on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. While you’re there. Please leave us a review. I would really, really appreciate it. I’m James Taylor. I know I’ve been listening to the SuperCreativity Podcast. 

-How To Develop A Creative Mindset


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